Return of the King, at last

[ealgylden]

I tried to post something this morning as I was running out the door, but the computer went all wooglie when I hit the button, and it didn't go through. Which, actually, is probably a good thing, since all day I was plagued by visions of people defriending me en masse because I spammed them with twelve copies of the same no-content post before traipsing off to see RotK. But that didn't happen after all (whew), and all was happy in the land of Joan.

So I accomplished absolutely nothing all weekend, not even writing out my Christmas cards, which will end up as Twelfth Night cards at this rate. Little Sister is up from school for the holidays, so I've been playing with her, watching hockey, the extras on my shiny, shiny Firefly DVDs (though none of the episodes yet), and the EEs of Fellowship and Two Towers, plus a bunch of those extras too. Despite all that, I still went into Return of the King today as calm and collected as if I were seeing the latest generic Hollywood actioner. Calm all through the annoying commercials, calm all through the previews, calm as the familiar letters swam up out of the dark... at which point I started crying. Not a lot, just a few tears welling up and running down my face every so often, but even so, I was already crying before anything, even just the appearance of any sort of picture on the screen, had happened. My stupid brain (in cahoots with my tear ducts) ambushed me, just like I'd figured. Hmph.



So I did, in fact, watch most of the movie with tears in my eyes. Poor Andrew Lesnie. His talents were not appreciated as they should have been (well, they were greatly appreciated, just... blurrily).

If you know me at all, you can probably guess what got the biggest weepy reaction of all. Yes, Théoden's death. Ah, min cyning. The theater is dead quiet, the tension is high... and there's me, practically breaking a rib as I struggle to hold in my great, wracking sobs. Just... when he looks at Éowyn and says, "I know your face. Éowyn," the same first words he says to her after Saruman's influence is broken and he comes out of his long darkness to see her, his wild girl, the daughter of his heart, and now she's there again at the end, his first and last vision in this darkest era of his life... sob! If I were in charge of the Oscars (and damn it, why aren't I?), they'd already be engraving Bernard Hill's.

I loved every single smidgin of the Rohirrim's screentime, from Éomer being snippy to his sister to Théoden's heartening his men by invoking their noble deaths to Gamling not being dead after TTT unlike poor, lamented Háma. The stream of riders pouring out of Édoras, and then turning to a river at Dunharrow. The Ride. Different from the book, yes, but wonderful and terrible nonetheless. Their brief moment of triumph lasting only long enough to turn around and see the Haradrim stomping toward them riding mountains. Éomer taking down two mûmakil while Éowyn and the other Rohirrim hamstring several more. Éowyn and the Witch King (of course, of course). Every minute of Rohan on the screen could have been twenty, and I would have been thrilled.

But I liked other stuff too, don't get me wrong. There wasn't much I didn't like, really, and I have high hopes that most of my quibbles will be fixed in the EE. I mean, we've seen pictures of Merry swearing fealty to Théoden, of Éomer grieving on the field of battle, and of the Houses of Healing. We know there was a Mouth of Sauron cast. And Christopher Lee has made darned sure that everyone knows there were more Saruman scenes filmed. So I'm not worried. I don't miss the Scouring of the Shire, which I can appreciate intellectually and historically but have never liked, and while I'm not fond of what happened to Denethor's character, I can live with it.

I'd been dreading Shelob since the first minute of the first movie, and I was so caught up in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields that when it cut away to Gollum leading Frodo into Cirith Ungol, I was irritated for a minute before it hit me, "Oh hell, the spider!" She wasn't so bad, though. Nothing could be as bad as what I dreamed up years ago, and boy howdy am I glad about that. She was still amply ooky, so I'm not complaining.

Liked Minas Morgul, fluorescent as it was. It was mostly the angles and that heights that did it for me, and the size of those doors. Awesome. Loved the Fell Beasts and the Nazgûl. Liked the corsair ships- nice and pointy-looking. Liked the Armies of the Dead, even with the potential Barbossa-esque cheesiness. Their home looked like a cross between the Mines of Moria and the Dead City at the end of The Neverending Story. Liked the pretty, Mediterranean-looking Gondorians. Liked Minas Tirith, although Édoras is still the prettiest. Loved broken-hearted Faramir and his men, riding off to their certain deaths. Loved Pippen (have always loved Pippen- he's my favorite hobbit), loved his parting from Merry (cried? Of course!), loved their reunion on the battlefield. Liked the replay of the Elrond/Isildur scene with Sam and Frodo. Liked Arwen's first scene (her leaving-that-wasn't and vision of plump little Eldarion, aw). Liked Aragorn and Arwen's reunion and kiss. Liked General Gandalf (though not his hitting Denethor with his staff, which is, again, part of my problem with this take on Denethor). Loved "release the prisoners!" (in an "eeek! no!" way, not a "yay!" way). Liked the eagles. Liked Aragorn's St. Crispin's Day speech, though I don't think Viggo had quite the voice for it. I would have loved to have heard Théoden (yes, I know he was already dead, sob!) or Gandalf or even Éomer give it, voice-wise, but still, yay Aragorn! Loved the lighting of the beacons, though I feel bad for the poor soldiers who drew mountain-top detail. Loved Denethor's first scene with Gandalf, Pippin and Boromir's horn. Liked Legolas and Gimli, even if we didn't get to see them sail off into the sunset together. Liked Sean Bean in the credits, though I wish Christopher Lee had been too.

Not much Merry, not much Faramir, barely any Éomer. No Imrahil, but I didn't really expect him. Barely any palantíri, which I understand but still find unfortunate (my Denethor problem again).

Didn't like Gollum. Well, okay, that's not strictly accurate. I did like how Gollum was done, in as much as he was a convincing creation and true to the books. I just... don't like Gollum. Never have. And I've never understood why he's so popular. Sure, I pity him. He's a miserable creature. But that doesn't translate to liking him. Oh well.

Arwen's Ring-sickness, well. I've decided to hear Elrond's little speech about it as his dip into Legolas-states-the-obvious-land, and not as a reference to anything as silly as a Ring-linked wasting disease. She's dying? Well sure, she "chose a mortal life" about ten time in every one of her scenes, so of course she's dying. All of us mortals are dying. Her fate is tied to the Ring? Of course it is, everyone's fate is tied to the Ring. That's rather the point of the whole ring-destroying exercise. And don't wreck my willful misinterpretation, please, because I'm finding it rather comfortable. La la la...

I love all the new Théoden icons I'm seeing around LJ; some of them are just wonderful. Yes, everyone, recognize his greatness! Woo! Now I just need to convince my mother that he was a good king- she's really not fond of him in TTT, but she warmed up to him in this movie. Kind of lousy timing, considering.

And I really need to figure out when I can see it again. Soon, very, very soon.


I need to catch up on comments and email tomorrow, and I probably should do those Christmas cards. I'd rather just go to the movies.

Hey, I have 1066 posts in my memories! Keen! Nobody write anything else I might want to save, okay? Stop being smart and funny and interesting.

Comments

[kathlaw.livejournal.com]

Sounds like we sobbed at the same parts. And I walked out with nose red, blessing both sunglasses (it was an 11 a.m. matinee I saw) and the baseball hat I was also wearing for aiding me in hiding it. Didn't help with the headache that I tend to get when I cry too much, though. Was worth it. Especially Theoden's death scene. Damn. Go Eowyn!

And yeah, to me Shelob merely looked like a huge tarantula, and I see those often enough, and know enough about them that they don't terrify me. There are other spiders that do, mostly smooth ones, not furry. Don't believe I ever saw Shelob as furry in my head.

Never knew anyone actually liked Gollum. Sirkis does an awesome job, but like the character? Eww. I'm with Sam on that one. Dirty, stinking thief.

Any chance you'll have time for an e-mail exchange about British Navy stuff circa 1700-1800? I'm, shall we say, re-visiting Horatio Hornblower. *wicked grin*

[ealgylden.livejournal.com]

Lessee... red nose? Check. Hiding behind glasses? Check. Headache from crying too much? Check. Yeah, sounds familiar. *g*

I liked the way Shelob moved. That was pretty creepy, and very spidery. But my mental Shelob wasn't very furry either, and in general this version was just "ew!" instead of "eeeeeeeeeeeeeek!", which is probably just as well. I didn't really want to end up with screaming nightmares.

Never knew anyone actually liked Gollum.

Neither did I until the movies, and it was a surprise. I can't imagine what's likeable about him. Nope, I'm with you and Sam. Gollum just isn't my thing.

Any chance you'll have time for an e-mail exchange about British Navy stuff circa 1700-1800? I'm, shall we say, re-visiting Horatio Hornblower. *wicked grin*

Hee! Yay Hornblower! I'm hoping I get a gift certificate to Borders or Amazon or something so I can get the new movies. Anyway, sure, of course! I have oceans of time right now. Aaaand I need to stop slacking and resend you that email. Oy, I'm such a flake sometimes.

[kathlaw.livejournal.com]

I'm hoping I get a gift certificate to Borders or Amazon or something so I can get the new movies.

declineandfall got them on DVD, and I taped them off-air. Just wish I could remember who I'd loaned the first six movies too. *sigh* Had to hit my local library and borrow the ones I needed.

[mrkinch.livejournal.com]

Finally!*breathes a HUGE sigh of relief* Similarly, I teared up as soon as I heard the music, and god knows the charge of the Rohirrim gets me every time. In fact, our reactions are remarkably similar, right down to Gollum and Denethor. It's a good trick to character assasinate someone like Denethor.oO

Wasn't that one hell of a kiss?*sighs*

Oh! Did you see the pukelman? And the look Theoden gave Aragorn as he left the tent?

Go see it again! soon!!

[ealgylden.livejournal.com]

I'd listened to the score several times before I saw the film, but I didn't want to get too used to or too jaded by any particular cues or motifs or anything, so I was careful not to overdo it. But since I've seen it I've been listening to it obsessively- it ends and I hit "start" again. Good thing CDs don't wear out.

I just don't get the Denethor thing. Most of the changes PJ and co. made, I can put into some sort of context, whether or not I agree with them (ie- blah was changed because it's a movie, because such-and-such needs to happen to get Event X accomplished without adding an hour of screentime, because changing character A means changing character B which changes character J, whatever). But I'm not yet sure what he's doing with Denethor or why he's doing it. I'll need to see it a couple more times, I think, before I can hope to pin that down. It's a pity, though, because John Noble strikes me as having the chops to do Denethor well, and he did have some really good moments. It's too bad that he also had some not good ones (his death, argh! No!).

Wasn't that one hell of a kiss?

Just the right blend of romantic and toe-curling, and certainly well-earned. I know lots of people wish he'd chosen Eowyn over Arwen, but that scene was so lovely I wouldn't have changed it at all (and anyway, Eowyn would be bored blind as Queen of Rohan).

Did you see the pukelman? And the look Theoden gave Aragorn as he left the tent?

I did! I squeaked with geeky glee, but no one else in the audience even twitched. Oh well, all the more Easter egg enjoyment for me, right? And Bernard Hill can certainly speak volumes with a look, can't he? I wonder if Theoden and Elrond made small talk while they waited. Hard to picture (funny, though).

I wish it weren't Christmas, though, or that the theater wasn't in a mall. I need to see it again really soon, and I can barely get near the place at the moment. Argh!

[mrkinch.livejournal.com]

Denethor started out well, I loved his rebuke of Gandalf, but if they weren't going to in fact give him the palantir I suppose it gets more difficult. He really is my only sticking place in the movie and I refuse to dwell.

I wonder if Theoden and Elrond made small talk while they waited. Hard to picture (funny, though).
They must have done, they must! Oh, god, can you imagine? If I can figure out what questions Theoden would ask I may try to drabble that. See, that's the thing about movieverse, the Rohirrim aren't terrified by Elves. I remember how surprised I was by that fellow grinning madly when the Galadhrim come marching in. He should have been cowering!

I'm going on Saturday, though I can imagine not waiting that long.*g*

[ealgylden.livejournal.com]

Denethor started out well, I loved his rebuke of Gandalf, but if they weren't going to in fact give him the palantir I suppose it gets more difficult.

Yeah, that's it exactly. I guess I can see why they cut the palantir, though I'm not entirely sure it was worth it (not after only one viewing and only the vaguest idea of what might be on the EE, anyway), but I think your attitude is a good one. I won't dwell either. It was an amazing movie, and I'm 99% thrilled and satisfied. And really, really impressed with what everyone involved accomplished- I was sure it couldn't be done.

If I can figure out what questions Theoden would ask I may try to drabble that.

Hee! Oh, that would be fabulous! What do they have in common? Headstrong children (stubborn daughters, especially). Leadership stress. Aragorn. Um... gee, not a lot, really (or not a lot that comes to mind at 2am, anyway). I'd love to see a drabble, though, if you were inspired. It's such a great idea.

See, that's the thing about movieverse, the Rohirrim aren't terrified by Elves. I remember how surprised I was by that fellow grinning madly when the Galadhrim come marching in. He should have been cowering!

Yeah, that was a surprise, though one I liked. I guess the movie!Rohirrim are just that brave (or desperate). That extra certainly did look pleased, didn't he? Maybe he was dazzled by all that shiny hair.

[mrkinch.livejournal.com]

I've always enjoyed the hints of superstition that survive into the movies, especially Aragorn in Fangorn, "Do not let him speak!" Chills, I tell you. But probably for reasons of exposition there is less estrangement between Elves and Men in PJ's world (Lord Elrond has called a council, indeed*sniffs*). I mean, Gimli set up fear of Elves, but it's left as peculiarly Dwarvish.

Again, untrusting as I am, I have not had the nerve to count the beacons.v_v

I took the other path regarding the soundtrack, utterly immersing myself therein from the moment I got it. I'll never know if your approach, shared by many of my friends, would have been better, but I'm so happy I don't care.*g* It is magnificent and I can safely say that I would enjoy the movies only fractionally as much as I do had they lesser music. Waiting for anything else they put out in that line!

I'm considering an early showing christmas day.*g*

[afrai.livejournal.com]

when he looks at Éowyn and says, "I know your face. Éowyn," the same first words he says to her after Saruman's influence is broken and he comes out of his long darkness to see her, his wild girl, the daughter of his heart, and now she's there again at the end, his first and last vision in this darkest era of his life

Yes. And damn you, I'm tearing up again. Oh, man, hello to no breathing for the rest of the night. But Eowyn and Theoden -- oh oh oh.

Okay, stop writing sentences that sum it all up perfectly and are right and make me cry. 'Cos I like breathing. (Eowyn! Theoden! *bawls*)

I've always been fond of book!Theoden, because he is so kindly and noble and fealty-keeping, and I liked movie!Theoden in TTT ('cos God, "where now the horse and the rider?" best. scene. ever), but ROTK's really been the movie to make me see the light. 'Cos. OMG HE IS SO COOL AND BRILLIANT AND THE LOVE! IT CANNOT BE CONTAINED!

Their brief moment of triumph lasting only long enough to turn around and see the Haradrim stomping toward them riding mountains.

God, that was such a brilliant moment. And Theoden yelling at everybody to make firm the line, and everybody mustering and standing firm even while these huge, huge things ride them down, and -- oh look, more tears. Hurrah.

I like your Arwen's Ring-sickness theory. I shall steal it and keep it in my head.

[ealgylden.livejournal.com]

Your icon was the very one I had in mind when I was yay-ing for the wonderful new Theoden icons I've been seeing. I've seen others, and I think they're all great, but yours is my fave.

I've always been fond of book!Theoden, because he is so kindly and noble and fealty-keeping

Yes, exactly! I'm hoping we get some scenes of him and Merry in the EE, just for a bit more of that particular aspect of him. I'm glad we get as much as we do, thanks to his scenes with Eowyn. But oh, he's such a wonderful character, and Bernard Hill did a brilliant job with him. I'm just a sorry mess of tears and squee when I even think about him (or any of the Rohirrim, really).

God, that was such a brilliant moment. And Theoden yelling at everybody to make firm the line, and everybody mustering and standing firm even while these huge, huge things ride them down, and -- oh look, more tears. Hurrah.

The cats are looking at me all puzzled, wondering why I'm sniffling. But I love that scene madly. They're so doomed, and so brave, and it just kills me that they get flattened. I need to see this movie again, like, now. *g*

Ooh, and I need to read your posts on it! I wasn't avoiding spoilers, but I wasn't hunting them down either, so I just bookmarked everything and left it for afterward. Yay! I have good things to read still!

[afrai.livejournal.com]

I've seen others, and I think they're all great, but yours is my fave.

*beams* Thanks. I have to admit I'm pretty fond of it myself. I think it's the Tolkien poetry that does it. Poetry + Theoden = good, good, good thing.

I'm hoping we get some scenes of him and Merry in the EE, just for a bit more of that particular aspect of him.

Yeah. Even in the book I preferred Theoden to Denethor, because Denethor was proud and noble and all, but Theoden Connected with the People. Even the Short People.

Bernard Hill made him a lot more, I dunno, dignified than I'd expected, but that was an improvement, really. He is brilliant. <3

They're so doomed, and so brave, and it just kills me that they get flattened.

Oh, yes. I was just sitting there thinking, "Why don't the Gondorians go out and get squished? Save the Rohirrim!" But I suppose I wouldn't love the Rohirrim as much as I do if they didn't bravely go and get squished.

[sffan.livejournal.com]

What they did to Denethor drove me nuts. I understand why, I think, but ARRRRRGGGHHHHHHHH. And the ring sickness *shudder* That was just.so.wrong.

Everything else was pretty much wickedly awesome. I think Peter Jackson is my hero.

[ealgylden.livejournal.com]

Denethor drove me nuts, because they got bits of him down right, like in that first scene with Gandalf and the horn, and then there'd be something that was so horribly wrong (like his death) that it drowned out the good bits. So, so frustrating. I was mostly okay with the changes to Faramir, once I got used to them, but this... I don't know. I need to see it again. I don't have a handle on what they were trying to do, I think.

But I'm almost entirely satisfied with everything else, so I won't complain too much. I'm just so amazed at these movies. I never thought they were possible, and while I liked PJ's earlier stuff, it sure as heck didn't point to this. Next year should be depressing, with no new one to look forward to, though. I don't think I'll think about that just yet.

[sffan.livejournal.com]

Maybe he'll do The Hobbit. Of course, he'd probably need about 2 yrs. But that's okay. I can wait.

[castalianspring.livejournal.com]

Eeeee! You saw it! And you've written your thoughts about it. Yay!

*hands you a box of hankies*

All I can do is nod my head and say "yes yes yes" about everything you said regarding Théoden and the Rohirrim. God, you're eloquent about it and I just may cry.

I have such love for Pippin. He's always been my favorite character, and probably always will. I love Legolas&Gimli too, but for me they're sort of one entity, a can't have one without the other package deal, and apart they're not as interesting. But Pippin, oh my. I <3 the little hero of a hobbit.

Arwen's Ring-sickness was just silly. I think I'm going to adopt your theory about it all.

[ealgylden.livejournal.com]

I think I'll need to see it many, many more times before I can stop crying long enough to see some of the details, but it's just so good. I wish there could be a tie for "Best Picture" at the Oscars. I want both M&C and RotK to win!

I love Legolas&Gimli too, but for me they're sort of one entity, a can't have one without the other package deal, and apart they're not as interesting.

I totally agree. They're wonderful as a set, but separately, well, they're more types than characters. So the solution, obviously, is to never split them up. Works for me!

And Pippin, oh, I love him madly, book and movie (and Billy was just wonderful). I loved his scene with the palantir, his parting from Merry, his first meeting with Denethor and then his song, his talk with Gandalf about death... hm, it seems I loved all of his scenes. That's okay then. ;) And I love Merry too, even though we got so little of him. With luck the EE will fix that.

Arwen's Ring-sickness is just silly. But since Legolas is always stating the obvious ("Something evil is coming!" "This forest is old." "A diversion!" Good thing he's pretty), I figured heck, maybe it's an Elf thing and Elrond is just being especially Elven. Otherwise, it's just too silly to believe.

[castalianspring.livejournal.com]

I too want to see it many times, and hopefully I'll find the time to hit a few matinees this coming week. Thank goodness I don't have to go to work until the 6th.

I wish there could be a tie for "Best Picture" at the Oscars. I want both M&C and RotK to win!

Oh yes, exactly! I'm having the same problem. I want both of them to win, and for different reasons, and I love them for such different reasons too. The conflict sucks.

I totally agree. They're wonderful as a set, but separately, well, they're more types than characters. So the solution, obviously, is to never split them up. Works for me!

This is true, especially so in the movies. They're cute for their "odd couple"ness more than for their individual traits (although those are good too). And since Tolkien doesn't split them up, who are we to suggest otherwise? ;)

And Pippin... hm, it seems I loved all of his scenes. That's okay then. ;)

Hee! Me too :) I'm just all about the Pippin love right now. I need to go find some good Pippin fic.

I hope Merry does get more to do (at least swearing fealty to Théoden), and Legolas and Gimli as well. Their scenes seem to be the first to get cut.

Arwen's Ring-sickness is just silly. But since Legolas is always stating the obvious ("Something evil is coming!" "This forest is old." "A diversion!" Good thing he's pretty), I figured heck, maybe it's an Elf thing and Elrond is just being especially Elven. Otherwise, it's just too silly to believe.

Hee! Exposition!Legolas *g* I like your theory of stating the obvious being an Elven trait. Otherwise, I have to wonder why Arwen would be so special that she's the only one tied to the Ring like that. You don't see anyone else (who's not directly in contact with the thing) deteriorating like that.

[ealgylden.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, exactly! I'm having the same problem. I want both of them to win, and for different reasons, and I love them for such different reasons too. The conflict sucks.

It really does. There have been ties in other categories before- I know Katherine Hepburn and Barbra Streisand shared "Best Actress" once. But I'm not holding my breath in this case, even if a tie were allowed in a category that big. Oh well. I'd be happy in either case (now watch Mystic River swipe it).

I'm just all about the Pippin love right now. I need to go find some good Pippin fic.

Me too. I used to have a link for an archive of Pippin, Merry and Boromir fic, some slash (hmm...) and some very sweet gen (yay!), but the archive seems to have vanished. I wish I'd printed some of them when I had the chance, or even noted titles and authors. Dagnabbit.

Otherwise, I have to wonder why Arwen would be so special that she's the only one tied to the Ring like that. You don't see anyone else (who's not directly in contact with the thing) deteriorating like that.

I've seen some people theorize that when she did her "let my grace be given to him" waaay back beside the Bruinen, she became linked to the Ring through Frodo. So once she made her decision to stay with Aragorn and her Immortality Shield (like the Pretty Shield that keeps the Warrior Elves so clean) was gone for good, her life-force started getting schlorked away with Frodo's. I think that's how the theory goes, anyway. And that makes as much sense as anything else, I guess. I hope PJ, Fran and Philippa elaborate on that particular plot twist in the EE commentaries, because some reason other than, "Well, Aragorn wasn't quite stressed enough yet..." would be good.

[castalianspring.livejournal.com]

I suppose I'll be happy if one of them takes it, at least. The Valar forbid any other movie should win. I'd kill something.

Me too. I used to have a link for an archive of Pippin, Merry and Boromir fic, some slash (hmm...) and some very sweet gen (yay!), but the archive seems to have vanished. I wish I'd printed some of them when I had the chance, or even noted titles and authors. Dagnabbit.

I've gone fic hunting the past few days, and should post some recs soon. Pippin, Merry, Boromir, some Legolas/Gimli (gen and slash, but I still can't write them any other way :) Luckily, I had written some recs down on paper, but the Nindaiwë archive has disappeared, so my links are bad, dash it all. Gonna have to search for some of them again.

Hmm. Well, it's an interesting theory (and I do like your Pretty Shield, hee!). I'm really looking forward to the commentaries on the DVDs (although really, I tend to just listen to the actors' commentaries, not PJ et al. Must remedy that.)