Mmm, Vikings (Arthurian Vikings, but whatever, it's cool)

[ealgylden]

Okay, I know everyone was all giddy yesterday about the King Arthur pics of Keira looking fierce (but cold. Poor girl, that costume looks really uncomfortable) or Ioan looking terribly butch, or both. I was too, believe me. But I want to throw a little love in the direction of Stellan Skarsgard. Come on, is that not the face of a Viking who knows he's doomed to die, and wants only to die well? I've only seen Stellan in contemporary roles, so I had no idea he had such a great look for period pieces. Nice surprise. I also have no idea who this Cedric he plays is (Cedric the Saxon, kidnapped and sent back in time from Ivanhoe?), but I'll admit freely that the Arthurian mythos is not traditionally my thing. I had one Medieval Comp. Lit. class on it as an undergrad (Gildas to Mallory, yeehaw), and that's pretty much it. Anyway, Stellan has definitely made the cast of my fantasy Beowulf and/or Viking saga movie, along with Dennis Storhoi and Vladimir Kulich from 13th Warrior (not a great pic of Dennis, but Vladimir looks fearsome), possibly Rutger Hauer (he did "nobly doomed" wonderfully in Ladyhawke, but that was a long time ago, and he's not aging well) and pretty much all of the Rohirrim. Some of the extras in King Arthur seem to fit the bill as well, and who is that long-haired cutie? Him too. I'll make him Wiglaf or something.

And speaking of King Arthur, I’m not in favor of banning books, but damn if I'm not tempted when it comes to Mists of Avalon. Not permanently, but just long enough so that there's one generation of teenies that doesn't shriek, "But Guinevere was blonde! She was a pious Christian virgin! Why isn't it all about the women? Where's Morgaine/Viviane/Morgause/whotheheckever?" whenever something Arthurian arises in pop culture. And I like MoA, or at least I did when I read it at thirteen (haven't read it since, and from what I hear it often doesn't hold up well after adolescence). But kiddies, it is not the Arthurian gospel. It's certainly not very good history, Arthurian or not. Or, you know, history at all. It's just a novel. Honestly.

Comments

[castalianspring.livejournal.com]

I don't want to try to speak for Joan, but I didn't read her comment that way. I read it as saying MoA had a potentially negative effect on "teenys" and their views on women's roles, not that everyone who likes the book is automatically in that category.

I won't comment on the way women are portrayed in the book, as I haven't read any of MZB's work. But I've yet to see a portrayal of women in any version of the Authurian legend (however you want to define that) which I've liked. I'm picky about portrayals of fictional female characters, and seldom like them, perhaps b/c I seldom can relate to them.

[cruisedirector]

MoA had a potentially negative effect on "teenys" and their views on women's roles

If that is so, then god(dess) help the teenys and the world they're about to inherit from the generation of women before them. It is a NEGATIVE effect that young women were given such a balanced view of women's roles that it disturbs them when they feel female characters are being marginalized, as they so often are in traditional myth? Not on my planet. If those women are planning to become Arthurian scholars, then yes, it is important for them to understand that Bradley's is a modern revision of a myth of which there are dozens if not hundreds of versions and that her characters, male and female, are by no means quintessential. But this:

I've yet to see a portrayal of women in any version of the Authurian legend (however you want to define that) which I've liked. I'm picky about portrayals of fictional female characters, and seldom like them, perhaps b/c I seldom can relate to them.

just makes me absolutely THRILLED that those younger women dismissed as "teenys" take MoA so seriously that they will fight to defend those female characters, even if they're misguided about the historical context. Your statement above is one of the saddest things I have ever read. Why, as a woman, would you be interested in a mythology in which the women are so intolerable that you don't even relate to them as such?

[castalianspring.livejournal.com]

If that is so, then god(dess) help the teenys and the world they're about to inherit from the generation of women before them. It is a NEGATIVE effect that young women were given such a balanced view of women's roles that it disturbs them when they feel female characters are being marginalized, as they so often are in traditional myth?

No, that's not what I'm saying. As a female myself, I certainly feel angered when female characters are marginalized. But that doesn't mean I want them emphasized to the point of negating the males. That just reverses the problem, IMO.

just makes me absolutely THRILLED that those younger women dismissed as "teenys" take MoA so seriously that they will fight to defend those female characters, even if they're misguided about the historical context. Your statement above is one of the saddest things I have ever read. Why, as a woman, would you be interested in a mythology in which the women are so intolerable that you don't even relate to them as such?

I don't think you read what I said in the way I meant it. I'll try to explain myself more clearly. It's not that I'm so interested the mythology made up of intolerable women. Honestly, I rarely relate to female characters in *any* fictional setting. That's not because I don't like other females, but because the female characters I come across in literature don't seem to share many, if any, characteristics I myself possess. For good or bad, I relate better to men, and always have. It seems that every time I come across a strong female character in a book or other media venue, either the story ends up focusing on some sort of romance; or her strength and lack of frills is explained by making her a lesbian (not that that's bad, but I'm not, so I can't really relate). One might call that sad, but from my pov I'm just frustrated at not being represented.

To sum up, I suppose if I can't read about women to whom I can relate, I'd rather read about the men to whom I can.

There are a few exceptions. To name one, I very much like the character of Rebecca Fogg (seen in this icon) from The Secret Adventures of Jules Verne. She's a strong character who isn't defined by the men around her. The fact that she's a redhead just cements my esteem for her :)

This really has been an interesting discussion. You have made me think, and reflect, and for that I thank you.