(no subject)
Jul. 8th, 2003 09:33 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ealgylden"A love triangle will develop among LaPaglia's Jack Malone, who's estranged from his wife; Poppy Montgomery's sexy Samantha Spade; and Eric Close's Martin Fitzgerald. Enrique Murciano, who plays Danny Taylor, will also find romance."
Ahh! Boo! No! That's just what I was afraid of! Martin and Sam have no romantic chemistry. None. They are a vast sucking black hole of romantic chemistry. They don't even like each other! Argh.
Of course the slasher in me doesn't like this, because it's so blatantly obvious that if Danny "finds romance" with anyone, it should be with Martin. But I've overcome bigger obstacles than stupid, misguided love triangles for my preferred couples before- heck, Boromir's dead and that's never stopped me from slashing him. But I'm also just a fan of the show, and I want it to live up to all of its potential. And this triangle thing sounds like a baaad idea. The best way it could play out, in my book, would be with Martin asking Sam out in the season premiere, Sam saying no because she loves Jack, and Martin going off to find solace in Danny's embrace because they're so much better suited for each other (hence Danny finding romance too). The end. WaT becomes a big success and makes its actors rich and happy, and Joan and her pairing live happily ever after.
Also from TV Guide, the first line of a mini-review of History Detectives (looks like a CSI-goes-Smithsonian deal on PBS)- "History is part fact, part speculation and part tedious nitpicking." Hey! That's my field you're... summarizing fairly accurately, unfortunately. Hm. Never mind.
Ahh! Boo! No! That's just what I was afraid of! Martin and Sam have no romantic chemistry. None. They are a vast sucking black hole of romantic chemistry. They don't even like each other! Argh.
Of course the slasher in me doesn't like this, because it's so blatantly obvious that if Danny "finds romance" with anyone, it should be with Martin. But I've overcome bigger obstacles than stupid, misguided love triangles for my preferred couples before- heck, Boromir's dead and that's never stopped me from slashing him. But I'm also just a fan of the show, and I want it to live up to all of its potential. And this triangle thing sounds like a baaad idea. The best way it could play out, in my book, would be with Martin asking Sam out in the season premiere, Sam saying no because she loves Jack, and Martin going off to find solace in Danny's embrace because they're so much better suited for each other (hence Danny finding romance too). The end. WaT becomes a big success and makes its actors rich and happy, and Joan and her pairing live happily ever after.
Also from TV Guide, the first line of a mini-review of History Detectives (looks like a CSI-goes-Smithsonian deal on PBS)- "History is part fact, part speculation and part tedious nitpicking." Hey! That's my field you're... summarizing fairly accurately, unfortunately. Hm. Never mind.
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(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-08 07:04 pm (UTC)Oh. And your solution? Perfect.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-08 07:46 pm (UTC)"Now that Trace is a hit, its producers are promising to introduce some personal story lines that might also entice fans of soapy dramas- like ER." No! Producer-guys, there's a reason why I stopped watching ER and NYPD Blue years ago- too much soap!
Television is evil, I swear. Evil and cruel.
Re:
Date: 2003-07-08 08:01 pm (UTC)And. I know, man. That's just. BS. *debates writing letters ;)*
EVIL! Capital letters!
(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-08 08:28 pm (UTC)Re:
Date: 2003-07-08 08:37 pm (UTC)*nods* Is there a lot of WaT stuff in the article?
(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-08 09:02 pm (UTC)So anyway, let me know what you decide.
Re:
Date: 2003-07-08 09:04 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-08 09:19 pm (UTC)Re:
Date: 2003-07-08 09:21 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-08 07:18 pm (UTC)Now I'm going to have to stop watching the show and live in denial. Fine, damn it. I can do that. I can write the slash and ignore the canon completely, it won't be the first time. Stupid anti-slash networks. I swear they do this crap on purpose. Sam hasn't even looked at Martin yet. Maybe she's just trying to make Jack jealous, so she enlists the help of her new best gay friend Martin, and in the process they make Danny jealous too. It's win/win for everyone.
Ooh. A denial fic is born. And it thumbs its nose at canon before the canon even happens. Now if only I could write something...anything...
(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-08 08:00 pm (UTC)I absolutely, completely agree. The part of CSI I like least is when they feel compelled to wander off into personal-life-land. I like Sara just fine when she's doing her job. When she's mooning around pining after Gil (give it up, hon), she annoys me beyond belief, and I end up hoping the next DB they get called in for will be hers (I really hate that plotline, obviously). I was so hoping WaT wouldn't head that route. I mean, yeah, I can live in denial. I have lots of practice. But it was so nice not to have to for once.
Sam hasn't even looked at Martin yet. Maybe she's just trying to make Jack jealous, so she enlists the help of her new best gay friend Martin, and in the process they make Danny jealous too. It's win/win for everyone.
That's brilliant! A wonderful solution that's both logical and classic, the stuff of romantic plotlines ranging from screwball comedies to film noir. I'm all for it.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-08 08:38 pm (UTC)Fucking networks. I don't understand why Bruckheimer is doing this to me. Now I fear for next season's CSI as well. I don't know why, exactly, I just have a really bad feeling.
This is why I never watch TV anymore. It all ends in tears.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-08 09:16 pm (UTC)I hate it when execs see something that's working and feel compelled to change it, as if the audience has the attention span of a caffeinated gerbil. I don't want total character stagnation, of course, but I got into this show because of what it was, and it bugs me that apparently that wasn't good enough. It's already a hit- why fix what isn't broken? And yeah, I have a vague bad feeling about CSI too. Last season was already becoming the Gil and Catherine Show, with occasional forays into the Warrick and Sara Show. Nick? Who's that? Oh, wait, that dumb guy (grrrrrr). And I love Greg, of course I love Greg, but having him in the field is going to make the cast even more crowded (though if they partnered him with Nick, I'd be happy). I just have a bad feeling about it, and about Nick's screen time in particular. And then there's the whole Sara/Gil thing...
Some days I just hate TV. Either my favorite shows get screwed with, or they get ripped away from me (I'm still not over Firefly. Hell, I'm still not over Brimstone).
(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-09 06:58 am (UTC)Believe me, I understand bitterness at the networks. They don't even make any sense anymore. I try not to get attached to TV shows at all for this very reason, but sometimes one slips under my radar, and then they do something in canon to muck it up and I'm screwed.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-09 07:16 am (UTC)Exactly. I'm violently opposed to Sara/Gil (they're just too much alike, and they bring out unfortunate qualities in each other), but Warrick/Catherine I'd really like to see. We've have had hints, though, so maybe someday. The one Gil pairing I was curious about was Gil/Lady Heather, and he sabotaged that pretty completely, Mr. Social Skills that he is. But Gil/Sara is a big neon "no" for me. Which means TPTB will pursue it, of course.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-09 02:09 am (UTC)Afraid I have to disagree with you on that one. While I can sort of see Martin/Danny stories, to me it's been pretty obvious that Martin's hanging around after Sam, and after the season ender it was even more obvious.
Doesn't invalidate the slash stories, the good ones anyway. :-)
(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-09 07:11 am (UTC)Naturally, all of this is my opinion, and disagreement makes life interesting. But I just really don't see any spark there.
Yes!
Date: 2003-07-09 07:54 am (UTC)The one time (at the end of The Friendly Skies) Martin asks her out it's because he desperately needs to decompress from the case, and not because he has any romantic interest (IMO) in Sam.
Ditto with the stuff in the (absolutely horrid†) two part season finale—he's just worried about a hurt coworker, like he would be if it were anybody else on that gurney.
(Speaking of ill-advised and forced on-screen relationships, Martin and Sam have about as much chemistry as Chris Larabee and Mary Travis had on The Magnificent Seven—which is to say, absolutely none. Blech.)
† I really think the season should have ended with the absolutely wonderful Are You Now or Have You Ever?
Re: Yes!
Date: 2003-07-09 06:46 pm (UTC)That's how I saw it too. He was wound-up, she was there, they were having a (relatively) friendly moment, and he asked her out. He could very well be a little attracted to her- after all, she's pretty and smart. But he's never seemed drawn to her strongly enough to really pursue it, particularly since they can barely talk without bickering. (Now Danny, on the other hand...)
Martin and Sam have about as much chemistry as Chris Larabee and Mary Travis had on The Magnificent Seven— which is to say, absolutely none.
Heeeee! And word!
I was surprised by how much I liked AYNOHYEB. Here I was, all disappointed that we got a clip show with only three new eps left, and it turned out to be this wonderful piece of work. And then the big, hyped-up finale got all soapy, unlike the rest of the season. It was pretty disappointing. I really hope that's not what they're aiming for next season.
Re: Yes!
Date: 2003-07-10 02:19 pm (UTC)It's possible that he feels like he *should* be finding her attractive to fit into the mold Daddy Dearest is trying to shove him into, whether he actually does honestly find her attractive or not. But no matter how many steps it looks like he's taking to get away from dad's plans, they are (mostly) baby steps, and sometimes he would fall back into established patterns. "Pretty, intelligent, single woman, must flirt or at least pretend to be interested in her."
(Don't mind me, I'm just babbling as I think things out out loud. *g*)
I was surprised by how much I liked AYNOHYEB.
Me, too! What wonderful moments that ep had: from Danny flipping out on Martin to bringing back creepy Spaulding for his trial to Jack having a crisis of conscience to Martin maybe finally getting his point across to his dad to that wonderful little partnership bonding moment of a shoe conversation. *g*
Here I was, all disappointed that we got a clip show with only three new eps left, and it turned out to be this wonderful piece of work.
Oh yeah. ::happy sigh:: Think I should rewatch it again tonight. *bg*
Re: Yes!
Date: 2003-07-11 11:05 am (UTC)Re: Yes!
Date: 2003-07-15 02:34 pm (UTC)I love getting to talk things like this out - it always forces me to take a really intense look at the characters to make sure I'm not making things up or going the fanon route. (Not that there's much fanon in this tiny fandom. *g*) And it may take a while, but the stuff brought up usually works its way into my stories (like the whole baby-steps idea will soon). *g*
I don't think he's at that point yet, poor repressed fella.
Definitely not. And it's going to take a lot of work (IMO) to get him there, even if he's already started heading that way. *g*
Eric Close
Date: 2003-07-09 11:29 am (UTC)It's the main reason I had doubts about anyone's ability to successfully slash him with Danny (or anyone), without warping Martin's personality, as I see it. I've seen those that warped, and one that came close to remaining true to the way I see his character as played by Close. But that story was mere attraction, not any real sensuality.
Why do I find Close so attractive? I suspect there's something in my white middle class background that says this is the kind of guy I should take home to the parents, then marry. Good genes. Handsome. Calm. No emotional storms, even if he does intensely focused really well.
He's so very internalized in each of his characters, even when going through the hell of Now and Again that he's "safe" in a way the teenager in me finds ... well, safe. :-)
Panting passion, sweating between the sheets, fast sex in a skyscraper stairwell? Just don't really see it with the way he plays the roles he chooses.
I'd like to be wrong, of course, hence my pleasure in the really good slash with his characters, rare though it is.
Re: Eric Close
Date: 2003-07-09 07:00 pm (UTC)Well, you know I agree with you there. He's almost too... clean, too smooth and unruffled, to approach from a real sensual/sexual angle. Martin's reactions to Danny are just about the sparkiest I've ever seen EC, and that's a wee, wee sizzle (on his part, at least).
Good genes. Handsome. Calm. No emotional storms, even if he does intensely focused really well.
(Heh. You too? Hurray for middle class indoctrination.) I do see that clearly in Martin, but with him (as opposed to, say, Vin) I also see darker things lurking below the surface. To me he seems to be repressing a lot of rage and pain. That's one aspect of the character I'm really hoping they develop next season, even if it means seeing more of his irritating father. I want to see him let loose. Of course, I'm not holding my breath, but still.
Re: Eric Close
Date: 2003-07-10 01:00 pm (UTC)Oh, yes. Love the layers there, especially with the decision by the exec producers to include his father as one of the characters, and making him second generation fibbie.
In talking about him with
Yeah, it's going to be interesting what they do with it. Haven't heard of any great changes in the writing/producing staff, so maybe they'll keep the same direction for the new season as they were heading last season.
Yes, my perspective on the whole Hollywood thing is different from the norm. :-) I see it from the writer side, not the viewer side, for all I understand the viewer side too.
Wail!
Date: 2003-07-09 07:44 am (UTC)My God, are the producers truly that stupid? Do they really not see that Martin and Sam have no chemistry whatsoever, let along romantic chemistry? (I so totally agree with you on that point.) Not to mention the whole "why the hell are you messing with something that works the way it is?!?"
I was cringing when they really started to up the Jack/Sam, because that was just such a very trite storyline, you know? They did surprise me and manage to make it somewhat tolerable, by it being the end of the whole affair. And it really should stay that way. Ended! BHOK.
(I liked that Sam was getting over it. I'd much prefer to see her have a much healthier relationship outside of the office with that NYPD detective. They actually have some chemistry.)
And of course, the fact that the looks Danny and Martin exchange are a heck of a lot more heated than anything between Sam and Martin. *vbg*
*sigh*
I'm so dreading this next season now. :( (Thanks for the heads up, though. *g*)
Now I'm gonna go crawl back in my corner and continue writing my Danny/Martin stories.
Re: Wail!
Date: 2003-07-09 07:46 am (UTC)Re: Wail!
Date: 2003-07-09 07:51 pm (UTC)I'll never understand that, and that's why I'll never work in television (okay, so it's one reason among many). I guess they're afraid we'll get bored? You'd think they'd have more faith in their excellent show, the ninnies.
I was cringing when they really started to up the Jack/Sam, because that was just such a very trite storyline, you know? They did surprise me and manage to make it somewhat tolerable, by it being the end of the whole affair.
Me too. Infidelity is just about my biggest no-no; I'm more inclined to be understanding about murder (well really, who hasn't wanted to strangle that annoying neighbor with the blasting music and the noisy sex? I'm kidding. Sorta). Besides, we've seen this plotline before. Many times. I liked the way they were treating it- it happened, everyone's hurting, here's what happens next. Why go back to that trough, though? I want to see how they all move on, or try to but fail, or whatever. I want aftermath, because we never get to see that part of the plot. Stupid PTB.
Are you the same Aithine who wrote (or cowrote) "Closed Shoulder" and "Cross Up"? If so, I really liked those, particularly the way you treated Martin's state of mind. His caution and second-guessing in "Cross Up" really rang true. Ulterior motives!Danny also seemed to fit the character perfectly. Good luck with your writing!
Re: Wail!
Date: 2003-07-10 02:42 pm (UTC)*sigh* I really want to know how someone makes it to a position of sufficient power to affect programming choices like this, when it's so blatently obvious that it's the screwing-around-with-the-formula-that's-already-working-fine-the-way-it-is-thanks thing that causes people not to watch a show, you know?
Infidelity is just about my biggest no-no;
Oh, yeah. Definitely mine, too.
I'm more inclined to be understanding about murder (well really, who hasn't wanted to strangle that annoying neighbor with the blasting music and the noisy sex? I'm kidding. Sorta).
LOL Know that feeling.
I liked the way they were treating it- it happened, everyone's hurting, here's what happens next.
Yes! That was the only reason I found it tolerable, because we were seeing the part that you usually don't see (except in very earnest movies of the week on Lifetime) dealt with in a relatively mainstream show.
I want to see how they all move on, or try to but fail, or whatever. I want aftermath, because we never get to see that part of the plot. Stupid PTB.
They really are. >.<
Are you the same Aithine who wrote (or cowrote) "Closed Shoulder" and "Cross Up"?
Yep, I wrote Closed Shoulder and my writing partner (
If so, I really liked those, particularly the way you treated Martin's state of mind. His caution and second-guessing in "Cross Up" really rang true. Ulterior motives!Danny also seemed to fit the character perfectly.
I'll pass this along to Veronica. :)
Good luck with your writing!
Thanks! :)